0:06

Hi, I'm Glynis Trail Nash, and welcome to the final episode in this series of In Fashion. no matter on what side of politics you sit, there's no denying that this episode's guest has made an indelible mark on the Australian political landscape. Australia's first female minister for foreign affairs, julie Bishop performed a role which required diplomacy, intelligence, a steely nerve, and a wardrobe that could play its own not insignificant part in soft diplomacy. While Julie May have copped plenty of flack for her interest in fashion, while in government, it's fascinating to hear the consideration and rationale behind a number of her choices for significant occasions. But today we also dig right back into the dress that sparked her lifelong love of fashion, as well as look at some of her more recent tutorial expressions, including her outfit for King Charles's Coronation in London. Our recording happily coincided with Australian Fashion Week in Sydney and we caught up at her hotel in the city. I hope you enjoy this episode of In Fashion.

GTN 1:18

Julie Glens great to see you. Thank you so. So much for joining us today. Delighted to be with you and I love that you've brought a little, a little selection of photographs that you may refer to during our chat.

Julie 1:29

Well, I thought that I would have a look back through my photographs to see if there were any memory joggers, and I collected together some photos that we can discuss during the course of our chat today. And I know it's audio, not video, but it will be an aid memoir to me going back. To my very earliest memories of my passion for fashion.

GTN 1:56

Amazing. Well, on that, we obviously all first knew Julie Bishop as the politician. Yes. When did the young Julie Bishop first discover a love for fashion?

Julie 2:05

At a very early age, and I have discussed this in public before, but the memory of it is so very real. I was probably about three, maybe four years old, and my mother was making a dress to wear to a very important gala ball, and we lived in the Adelaide Hills and times were pretty tough on the land, and she had bought a vogue pattern at david Jones in Adelaide and Vogue had just come to Australia. Vogue magazine had just started in Australia, and so she wanted to wear what the fashionable women of Paris would've been wearing. And we still have that vogue pattern, but I recall so very well my godmother and my mother sitting on the living room floor with a pattern and this most beautiful candy pink tulle and lace material everywhere, and they stitched it into the most glorious gown. And I was obsessed besotted. I couldn't believe that they could create something so utterly magical. And on the evening that my mother and father were attending this ball, my father was in white tie in tails, and my mother wore this magical fairy princess pink dress and somewhere deep inside me. I understood from that moment the transformative power of fashion. She looked absolutely stunning and she'd had transformed from my mother to this magical creature who looked so utterly beautiful. I think I cried as a little girl at the time. Oh, how gorgeous. So now I have to show you the vogue pattern here. Oh wow. You have this, I actually have a picture of the Vogue pattern.

GTN 3:59

Oh my God. And it's got the huge bow on

Julie 4:01

the back. So the pink skirt was tulle. Mm-hmm. And she had that in pink lace with the, and we still have the dress. My sister still has that dress. So that was the moment that I fell in love with clothes and, and, uh, the ability to transform oneself or express oneself through clothes.

GTN 4:21

Absolutely. And I love that you saw the process as well. Yes. Yes. So remember

Julie 4:25

just picking it off a wrap. I remember perching on the back of the dining room chair where she was sewing at her old. Um, singer sewing machine at the dining room table. I dunno how long it took them to make the dress. It seemed like weeks, but probably not. But I, I was perched on the back of the chair, uh, precariously watching over her shoulder as she stitched this wondrous outfit.

GTN 4:46

Oh, how amazing. I can't

Julie 4:48

believe you still have it. Yeah, it is. It's in the family. Yeah, it's in the family. We, we are hoarders. We keep

GTN 4:53

everything that makes two of us alarmingly. Um, so that was obviously then, what was the item? That was the item that first picked your interest? What was your first item perhaps that you remember that. Spoke to you.

Julie 5:06

Well, I was the youngest of three daughters and I have a younger brother, so I had two older sisters, and that meant I had to wear hand me downs, and I thoroughly disliked that process. I did not want to wear hand me downs, and this reminded me. Um, my mother dressed us rather well, but here is a picture of the three girls. Oh, and the dress that I'm wearing was my oldest sisters at one point, and then it was my middle sisters, and then it's me. But I just recall very well not loving the whole process of being the youngest daughter and having to wear hand-me-downs. So I was desperate to buy my own clothes and we all worked in the family business, the, the orchard at basket range and earned pocket money. And I think I must have been about seven when I'd earned enough money, um, picking cherries and packing cherries to buy my, maybe I was a little older, maybe eight, to buy my first outfit and I spent it on what was then called a skivvy.

GTN 6:14

Oh, I loved Azu. A skivvy,

Julie 6:16

a brown and white skivvy. Horrendous. But I wore it everywhere. I thought I was terribly fashionable, but I would spend my Christmas holiday pocket money on clothes. Amazing. From a very early age.

GTN 6:26

Now let's quickly have a chat about the coronation. Yes. Because that was very recent and you had a nice line of Zimmerman happening. When you have to go to something that's such high stakes as this, with all the eyes of the world watching, how do you start that process and, and why the Zimman pieces that you ended up with?

Julie 6:44

I knew a few months ago that I'd been invited to the coronation. I received the email. The hard copy invitation came much later, but of course we were all sworn to secrecy. But I confided in, um, Bridget View from David Jones and Ed Weer McCann that I was attending a rather special event on the 6th of May, and they put two and two together and I wanted to wear something that was overtly australian and Australian designer and in our discussions we concluded that Zimmerman was indeed regarded as one of the top Australian designers. They'd just had a very successful, um, runway in Paris and they had stores all over the world and a particularly popular store in Mayfair in London. And so we decided on Zimmerman and knowing that if I wore a particular Zimmerman outfit, people would immediately recognize it as being Zimmerman. And I thought that was appropriate, that it wasn't just about me attending the coronation in my capacity as Chair of the Princess Trust Australia. I was also an Australian at the Coronation. And so I wanted to wear something that would promote Australian fashion, and we chose one of the outfits from the Paris Runway Show and Nikki Zimmerman added more flowers, more applicate flowers. And then we collaborated with Neda Winter for a hat because, um, fascinators are de regur at coronations and royal weddings and nikki had more of the applicated flowers, so we created the hat to go with the outfit and we were all in David Jones styling suite, putting it together in the lead up to me leaving for the coronation. And the princess Trust had also invited a young indigenous girl who was a recipient of preacher's trusts. program or had been a beneficiary of a princess trust program and David Jones styled her as well. And Taylor green Aldridge, brilliant young woman, 18 year old indigenous girl, had never been on a plane, had never been outside Australia, so her first. Trip on a plane and her first overseas trip is, uh, Qantas to London for the coronation, and we dressed her as well. So we had a wonderful afternoon women's wear Daily, the bible of fashion in the US has got me there and lovely write-ups as well, saying, um, Australian designers, Zimmerman. So it achieved its purpose. I love that. And sitting next to Lionel Richie didn't hurt.

GTN 9:26

Oh my God. I, when I saw that on Instagram, I was just,

Julie 9:30

well, he's also a global ambassador for the Princess Trust and the charitable worker, the Princess Trust. And I chair the Princess Trust Australia, but I'm also on the global board. Of Prince's Trust Global. Was it a fun event? It was magical. It was a extraordinary event, so steeped in religious and historical significance, but the pageantry in the beauty and the splendor, it, it's just breathtaking. Mm. And we had an amazing location. We were right on the aisle, one row back from the aisle, so we had a, an uninterrupted view of the whole procession, which was so solemn yet so, Incredibly joyous. Mm-hmm. I loved every minute.

GTN 10:13

Now when you first started, before you started in politics rather, um, you were in law. Yes. Now, how does one approach, was it all skirt, suits and court shoes when you started?

Julie 10:23

Very much. I was a, uh, young article Clark in Adelaide, in a firm that had never employed a female in any role other than in the typing pool or as a cleaner, I guess. So they were. A little unsure about me and I wanted to look the part. By that stage I, through uni, it was just in jeans when Ched desert boots. But by the time I started at the law firm, I was wearing country road suits or sportscraft suits or liberty print. Mm-hmm. Dresses that kind of, you remember all that? Mm-hmm. That kind of look. So I dressed the part and the more experienced I became as a lawyer, the more court appearances I did. And in those days there was a very strict code of dress for female barristers, solicitors and barristers. And it was a black skirt, court shoes, black jacket. You wouldn't have even dreamed of wearing color. So, uh, that was quite handy because black and white suits are quite useful, aren't they? They are. So throughout my, um, Legal career. I always dressed, I thought appropriately for the occasion professionally. And again, I remember when I, I'd moved to Western Australia and I became a partner at law firm and my first, uh, paycheck was spent on a Nani suit. And I still have, I still have the skirt of that pani suit. So they're certainly classics. Yeah.

GTN 11:51

Then you entered politics in the late nineties. Was there much difference in how you approached fashion from law to politics at that time?

Julie 11:58

Not at first. I believed that you had to be authentic. I'd been elected as a person who had a 20 year legal career behind me. So I wasn't, you know, new to a, um, significant career. I'd had a very successful legal career, and so I continued to dress as I had as a lawyer. I thought, um, parliament as an institution deserved the same respect as a court. So I dressed in suits and My designer labels and, and the like, uh, that lasted for a while until I was appointed the Minister for Aging and I received a call from one of the senior advisors, uh, to tell me that I had to stop dressing like a corporate lawyer and start dressing like a minister for aging. And I was fascinated to get fashion advice and fashion tips from a senior much older male in the Prime Minister's office, and I asked how, how do ministers for aging dress? And he said, well, less Amani and more, you know, cardigans and things. And I thought, oh, cardigans. Okay. And this is before Michelle Obama had made cardigans fashionable. Yes. And so I, I did change my style there for a while to, to look more like what I perceived, um, people wanted, but then I became the Minister for education after that and so I had to dress like an education minister. I dunno how they dressed, but then in 2007, we lost government, went into opposition and there's far less focus on you. I mean, I was no longer a minister, so there's far less media interest in those in opposition, and I could relax a little. And then by the time. We came back into government in 2013. I was well and truly being myself, dressing how I would wish to dress and being authentic to the person, uh, that I was. Now, that did attract a level of criticism.

GTN 14:01

Um, you were, you were known as the Minister for fashion quite often

Julie 14:04

indeed. Which, uh, was meant to be a pejorative term and I absolutely embraced it and loved it totally, because I do love clothes. I do support Australian designers and, and obviously international designers as well. But I also in opposition realized that there was a real opportunity. I was then the shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs and trade, and we were developing policies for when we eventually got into government and I was focusing, focusing very much on what I called economic diplomacy. It's not a phrase I came up with, but it was something that I really embraced and that our diplomatic efforts were not just about our strategic and defense and intelligence requirements, but it was also about promoting our economy, using our diplomatic efforts and all the, um, state craft that we had to promote our economy. We are in, you know, outward looking market economy. We Have a, an economy that is absolutely based on our ability to export goods and services. So I wanted to promote an area of Australian trade that I felt had been underdone and that was fashion. So while in opposition, I met with ed Wener McCann. She was looking at, sitting up the Australian Fashion Council.

GTN 15:20

She was then at Vogue. Editor. Vogue.

Julie 15:22

Yes, indeed. And we started talking about the, the fact that. The Australian fashion industry was not well represented within Austrade yet we were global leaders in some areas, and I'd seen it from the amount of travel I'd done around the world and people, I'd met Australians who were doing brilliant things, not only in the US and in Europe and south and North Asia, but they were true trailblazers for the fashion industry. And I felt that that was an area that had been overlooked. So when we came into government and I was the Minister for Foreign Affairs, I implemented what I called fashion diplomacy and, um, meant it that the multi-billion dollar industry should receive the same attention as other areas of our export industries. You know, mining resources, energy, um, financial services. The fashion industry cuz not only did we have world class designers and stylists, but also manufacturers, the raw materials, um, wool, pearls, diamonds, cotton, cotton. We, we had it all and yet we weren't promoting it. So that's where the Minister for Fashion, became you know, it, it was meant to be used as a political weapon against me, but I absolutely embraced it, loved it, and the, and the more my opponents would suggest that you can't be interested in fashion and hold down a serious job. Perhaps the more flamboyant I became.

GTN 16:55

It's like, uh, it's like just feeding. Yes. Feeding the interest and the, the fight back.

Julie 16:59

Yes. Um, but, but we did, we did some amazing things. I remember, uh, being in, um, Rio de Janeiro and meeting with the editor of vogue and through that connection we were able to get a couple of Australian designers on their, um, fashion week runway. I mean, we were able to open doors for Australian designers and manufacturers all over the world. It was very exciting. And also using our diplomatic assets like our embassies and consulates to host fashion events. And you would attract the host nation's fashion media, completely different impact than the political or mainstream media, but the fashion media could put Australia on the front page where political media may well not. So a, a very powerful form of soft diplomacy.

GTN 17:51

Soft diplomacy, fashion diplomacy. Yeah, absolutely. Cause I remember, I remember going to some things at the, the Australian Embassy in Paris, for example. Yes. And it was always that idea that you've just got to use fashion, support fashion, um, on the international stage because it was, it was always that thing like, Beer and wine and everything. Yes. And mining was always so supported and subsidized. And yet, as we discovered a couple of years ago, yes. You know, Australian fashion exports are worth more than beer and wine exports.

Julie 18:17

Indeed. And we uh, ha I remember having an event in Rome and attracting, like the head of Zenya and, and people like that there because, Our super fine wall and the collaborations that they were seeking to do with Australian designers. It was just fantastic. You wouldn't get the head of Zenya coming to an Australian political event. But that connecting beauty of fashion and I mean, in Italy and France, I'd laugh at you if you didn't take the fashion industry seriously. Could you imagine if a French politician ridiculed another French politician for having an interest in French design and French fashion. Ludicrous.

GTN 19:01

It's part of your economy. Absolutely. It's part of your identity.

Julie 19:03

It's a significant part of the Australian economy. It employs hundreds of thousands of people directly and indirectly. Uh, it is a significant contributor to our export income and It's just such a significant part of our economy and needs to be taken very seriously. Mm-hmm.

GTN 19:19

I remember when, you know, over all of my years of reporting, it was like for the first time everyone was in the industry was like, oh my God, there's a politician that is actually talking about this, not afraid, promoting it.

Julie 19:31

Not afraid to talk about it, not afraid to talk about it, is that relishing the opportunity. And it really did open completely different doors. I must say the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade embraced it. They understood it. They just hadn't had a female foreign minister before, um, as the first female foreign minister. So if I didn't promote it, then who would, and I saw it as, Part of my responsibilities, of course, equal with other areas of, um, trade and commerce, but fashion had to be in there.

GTN 20:02

Yeah. I mean, apart from the, you know, minister of fashion thing, what were some of the other things that you had to deal with on a daily basis in terms of criticism? Because, you know, being the best dressed person in Australian parliament...

Julie 20:12

oh, look, I, I never view my career through the prism of criticisms. If you did that, you'd. You'd give it away. I, uh, I always just put criticism in a particular space. If it's criticism from people whose opinions I respect or whose judgment I value, then I'll take it on board. But if it's just the white nor as, um, as you are inevitably subjected to it as a politician, then I ignore it.

GTN 20:41

Advice for everybody there, right?

Julie 20:45

Yeah. If, if you, if you don't respect the, uh, the person or the source, why do you take any notice of it?

GTN 20:51

Yeah. Now, while you were our first female foreign affairs minister Yes. Um, that in itself, Brings a lot of different sort of situations and some very delicate diplomatic things to navigate. Can you tell us some of those situations that you found yourself in, in and how you approached that?

Julie 21:12

Soft power diplomacy is, um, perhaps rather misunderstood, but it's, it's a, um, A fascinating aspect of being foreign minister. You are literally the relationship manager for your country. So the foreign minister is the one that is meant to develop the connections, the personal, um, relationship with their counterpart, foreign minister and other leaders to smooth the way for leadership meetings. So if the Prime Minister is to meet the Chinese president, then hopefully the foreign ministers will have paved the way they will have developed a relationship. And I took that role very seriously. I traveled a great deal in my five years as foreign minister. I met with my counterpart ministers often. Uh, I developed a rapport with them. There was no point in me making enemies. I had to be friends with everyone, and also saw the value in personal connections. And I began exchanging mobile phone numbers with my counterpart foreign minister, which was a completely new concept. Oh. Because you're meant to do all your engagement via the channels, uh, official channels through the consulate and the embassies. But I would always get the mobile phone number and send them a text and, and develop a level of informality. So doing things differently. But I was aware that as a female foreign minister, there were certain, um, nations where they'd never had a female in any kind of leadership role, or they were a country where they didn't respect a woman in a leadership role. And I was very conscious of those circumstances as well. And it, it did make things a little difficult at times, but I also used it to my advantage. And again, uh, fashion played a big part. what I wore, I knew would be of interest to the Australian media, but it also became of interest to the host country. And it's not an original idea, but I would often pay my respects by the colors I would choose to wear. And I've got a couple of photos just here that just reminded me of how I would do that. For example, my first meeting at the White House, I wore a white suit with Obama and President Obama said how very appropriate a white suit for the White House. Uh, whenever I met with the Chinese foreign minister Wong Yi, I would wear red or gold. He always noted that I was wearing the colors of, of china. There I am meeting the Dutch foreign Minister and wearing the colors of the Netherlands when the king and queen of the Netherlands came to Australia and I wore a orange full length coat. Again, the queen noted that I was wearing the colors of the Netherlands, but probably one of the more difficult, um, challenging moments was when I visited Iran and, uh, Iran has a particularly the, you know, morality, police and the, the religious leadership have a particular view of the role of women in society, and it certainly doesn't reflect australia's view, but I was invited to, um, Tehran and I wanted to go because we had some significant issues we had to raise with the Iranian government about first our involvement in Iraq, and secondly about the number of Iranian men who were seeking to be asylum seekers, um, and get on boats and be transported to Australia. So there were a couple of very serious issues I had to have. I was told I had to wear a burka or at least a hijab. And I said, I'm not doing that. And the Australian media were already getting excited about the fact that I was going to Tehran. I was the first Australian minister to go there for many, many years. And Australia had maintained an embassy in Iran throughout. And I arrived and was wearing a hat cuz I often wore hats around the place. But I was told that to meet president, um, Rohani, I had to wear the whole outfit covering. And they had this outfit in my hotel room that was just horrendous. And I said, I'm not wearing that. I'm really not wearing it. And they said, well, if you don't cover your head, you won't get the meeting. And I thought about it. And a number of people had said that, you know, Hillary Clinton didn't wear a headdress when she was in the Middle East. They overlooked the fact that Hillary Clinton wasn't in Iran. She'd gone to Saudi Arabia and not worn a headdress. Iran is a different issue, and no, US senior female had visited Iran for many years. So the media always got that wrong. You know, I was in Iran, not, you know, elsewhere in the Middle East. And the Persians have a particular view of this. So I found in my suitcase, my Amani scarf, which is just something I used to wear out that evening. I found a beautiful broach, I had a black Overcoat and just black pants. So I put it together and made myself what I thought would do. It was a head covering and I came to see, The president and the morality police were checking everything as I walked through. I had covered my head, but it happened to be Armani sequence scar. I did have on a black, but it happened to be a beautiful coat and I was wearing leggings. So I ticked the boxes, but only just, I can tell they wanted to, um, have an argument with me, but it was, um, It was my way of saying, okay, I respect that you insist, I wear a head covering. And quite frankly, when you visit the Vatican and you see the Pope, you have to wear a head covering or a lace one when I visited the Pope, but I got around what could have been a very awkward situation and I didn't want to wear a very ugly hijab.

GTN 26:57

Yeah. And it's, it's about that. It's about respect. It's, but it's also about self-respect in a sense.

Julie 27:02

I wouldn't have got the meeting. Mm-hmm. So it would've been a completely. Um, futile effort to go there and take a stand at that moment about having to wear a head covering to see a religious leader. But in actual fact, um, nobody ever raises a question about when you go to the Vatican and you have to wear a head covering to see the pope. Yeah. Interesting, isn't it?

GTN 27:22

It is. I mean, you, you've had so many, you know, you said you had obviously some very, um, delicate things to discuss in that situation. You also, you know, after the Malaysian flight MH 17 was down, you were leading that. Yes. International charge. I mean, how do you approach things like that in a sense? Is there a sense that you want to almost have an armor in fashion?

Julie 27:45

Uh, perhaps, perhaps subconsciously or unconsciously. Uh, you if, if you're dealing with very difficult situations and you have to make very serious points, you want to look the part. So if you are appearing in the United Nations Security Council, I would wear a very serious suit because that's a very serious situation, and in a sense it does make you feel like you are more in control. There's nothing worse than being distracted by wearing something that you feel uncomfortable in, or you know it's inappropriate or you shouldn't have worn it. So to know that you are dressed appropriately for the occasion and projecting the image that you wish to project gives you a sense of confidence, I believe.

GTN 28:31

Mm. In every facet of life, right? Yes. Yeah, when you entered politics yes. Was there anyone that you had as someone you admired in the way they dressed in politics, for example, there weren't that many examples, right?

Julie 28:46

Not specifically in politics. There were very few, um, Female ministers in in politics. When I became a cabinet minister in 2013, I was the only woman in the cabinet. Uh, there were more women, um, in my earlier years in politics, but I was always very conscious of, uh, world dressed women around the world. Whether they were in, uh, the Queen for example. She had her particular style. Princess Diana, of course, um, was a huge influence on, on everyone who followed fashion. So I've certainly admired, uh, women in leadership or high profile positions who used fashion to their advantage. I was also quite taken with Madeline Albright's read my pins when she started using broaches and jewelry to send subtle messages, and I was fascinated by her ability to do that. I had a collection of, uh, broaches that I also used on occasions. I had a serpent and I had peace doves and, and I sometimes to amuse myself, I, I would wear different different broaches at different occasions to send a message. Doesn't matter whether the message was received or not. I felt good about it.

GTN 29:58

You knew about it. I'd love to know who they sent the serpent for.

Julie 30:01

You just have to go back through my, my, um, official photographs and job for everybody listening. Serpent, yes. Oh, that is gold. Because it's, remember when the queen had broach gate as well? Yes. Um, she was doing some, throwing some shade at Trump, for example, which I was always Yes. Well, Madeline Albright's book is, is just such a compelling reading. I very much admired the three female secretaries of state that I'd met, uh, Madeline Albright, Les Rice and Hillary Clinton. And they knew the power of, of appearance as well as as female secretaries of state of the most powerful nation on the planet. And they all dealt with some pretty challenging situations. And I admired their calm and their presence. And you don't have to agree with their politics, but they were certainly great representatives of the United States at the particular time when they held that position.

GTN 30:57

Yeah, and I guess in roles, like in politics and things, you kind of have to have a wardrobe that you know, Everything fits perfectly. Everything's can work together. It it, I mean, is it, was it a bit of a,

Julie 31:10

it was a bit of a military exercise packing to go overseas because being the foreign minister from Australia, you just didn't sort of pop over to Europe for the day. Like if you were based in London, you went away for weeks at a time, and so you had to have outfits that would take you from black tie dinners through to state occasions, through to, um, funerals. For example, I remember when I flew to New York for the UN Security Council, MH 17, I literally had to leave from Sydney, um, with the clothes that I had with me at the time because I didn't have time to go back to Perth back home. And so I flew to New York and. Got through that and then went on to Amsterdam because we were then going to Kyiv and I was fast running out of clothes, particularly when we had to go to the um, memorial that was held at Ovn Airbase when they started bringing the coffins back from Ukraine and the king and queen of the Netherlands and of all the dignitaries and diplomats from around the world were at these memorial services and I just didn't have an outfit. So, the Australian ambassador onto the Netherlands on the way down to the airbase where the services were to be held, dropped by what he thought was a fashionable area in, in Amsterdam. And I went in and said to a woman I needed to buy an outfit for a funeral, a jacket and a hat, and she said, you're the Australian Foreign Minister. And I'd been on the front page of the paper and she recognized and she said, oh, the queen and the king are going to this event. And I said, yes, I know. She said, Hmm, you must get you something. So she called in people from shops around. Um, I got a hat and I got a jacket and shoes. Anyway, then I didn't have any money, so the Australian ambassador put it on his personal credit card and kept saying, this is not gonna look good. I paid him back as soon as I, I've got my credit card, but, um, it was always having to be creative and flexible and, and innovative in circumstances.

GTN 33:19

I know everything you'd having to be calling. I imagine you'd have to be calling ahead to stores that you knew, for example, and say, can we get this to the hotel? Like, yes.

Julie 33:27

Yes. And so it was a military operation and making sure that you had the right outfit to wear or the appropriate outfit to wear, uh, did take a little bit of thought and careful planning.

GTN 33:38

On that, is there something that you always travel with outfit wise that you just know will Kind of,

Julie 33:43

my running gear. I always have my, my joggers and running gear in my, in my suitcase. Carry on. Always. But you know, black pair of pants. Yep. Black heel. Yep. White shirt done. Can't go wrong. Done. Nice earring. Sun. Done. Yeah. Sort earrings. And an novaco and a scar.

GTN 34:00

Because the scarf can come in handy for so many things. As we know, as we know. Um, now we couldn't talk about fashion and politics without discussing your resignation outfit, which was just such a moment. Um, The red, the red roto shoes, the red certain pumps

Julie 34:18

took a life of its own, didn't it?

GTN 34:19

Yeah. With the crystal heels. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's fabulous photograph. Don't

Julie 34:24

Alex Elling Haen took that and look at their shoes. The sea of bad black shoes. Yeah. There's a lot of bad black shoes. And, uh, it, it also spoke volumes, didn't it, about being a female leader resigning. Mm-hmm. Facing a sea of men, uh, which was basically the story of my political career. But the shoes turned out to be an inspired choice, but I was in canberra, I'd resigned on the leadership spill was on the Friday. I went home on the Saturday, ran in a city to surf on the Sunday to clear my mind, put out a press release, I think that afternoon, saying that I would be stepping down as foreign minister and leaving the cabinet. And then I was back in Canberra to clean up, clean up my desk. And so I held a press conference on the Tuesday and it was a question of wearing what was already in my wardrobe, cuz I didn't bring a whole raft of things with me and these red shoes were in my wardrobe and I hadn't worn them before. And so I'd obviously taken them to Canberra for some particular reason. So they were in my wardrobe in Canberra and I put on my Navy suit cuz I wanted to look serious. And Navy jacket and dress and the red shoes were just there. Now did, I mean to make a statement? Possibly, but I didn't think that it would take off in the way that it did. And besides that, they were a fabulous pair of Richards very,

GTN 35:46

and I, I can't believe you don't have them anymore cause they're now in, in the Museum of Democracy.

Julie 35:50

Well, this, the photograph that Alex took, he has a, a wonderful eye for this sort of thing. The photograph that Alex took went viral before the press conference was over, and I made my way back to my office and my staff was saying, Your shoes. I mean, sorry. No, nobody cares about what I said. Your shoes have gone viral. And eventually the Australian Museum of Democracy asked if they could borrow them for a, an exhibition. They had, you know, John Howard's tracksuit and Tim Fisher's Akubra, and they're like, and they borrowed the red shoes. And apparently it was such a popular exhibition, particularly amongst the school girls that were visiting Canberra. Because the Museum of Democracies located in Old Parliament House and they asked if they could keep them beyond the exhibition. And then it got to the point where I thought, I think this is their natural home of I'll have to live without them. I love there was, I donated them.

GTN 36:44

So good. That was a fantastic quote from, uh, the journalist Julia bed. I've gotta quote this. She calls them symbols of defiance, spunk and covert rebellion that will become relics of a subterranean rage.

Julie 36:58

She has such a beautiful turn of phrase, doesn't she? Julia's a beautiful writer. Yes. Well, I mean, The red shoe emoji, of course, is, is all about the empowerment of women. And so they did take on a, a life of their own. And I think that there were some significant messages that women around Australia did take from my resignation and, um, the results of the leadership ballot and the like. And clearly the public saw me in a different light than members of my party, and some women found that perplexing, some people found it perplexing.

GTN 37:41

I mean, it, it does come back to that idea that anyone in power as, as you touched on before, can actually have an interest in fashion. It's like, why should they not go together?

Julie 37:48

Mm. I've found that wherever I went in Australia, uh, whatever electorate, whatever part of Australia I was in, women would come up and talk to me about my cloth choices or fashion or, um, some matter of interest to them about my clothing. And it didn't matter whether I was in a shopping center in Northern Queensland or I was in Outback Australia. Women from every walk of life was interested. rarely did I find criticism amongst the public about my interest in fashion and people are interested in it. Mm-hmm. But there were some in my party and also in opposition who felt that it meant I was out of touch. Mm-hmm. Uh, quite the contrary.

GTN 38:32

Yeah. Because I mean, no matter how intelligent you are, no matter how powerful your job is, you still. Uh, you know, not all women, but most women,

Julie 38:41

but a lot of women fascinated and love it also, who, um, circumstances are such that they couldn't afford to spend money on fashion they like observing it on others. Yeah. It doesn't mean, it doesn't mean that they're resentful about it. They actually like looking at. Yeah. What's fashion? I mean, that's why fashion magazines are still so popular. Exactly. And online and Yeah. People wanna see what other people are wearing.

GTN 39:01

Exactly. We're all scrolling. Our Instagram feeds for inspiration, aren't we? Now in 2021, you also got your own Barbie doll in that very outfit. So what did that mean to you in terms of, uh, representation for, for young girls?

Julie 39:15

I had always been a big fan of, Barbie dolls. In fact, as a little girl, my mother reflecting my interest in fashion, my parents got me one of the first Barbie dolls to come to Australia, and it was a Jackie Kennedy Barbie doll with the black hair and a, a little gold swimsuit golden white swimsuit. And then a, like a little Chanel Jackie Kennedy outfit. And I loved my Barbie doll. And I gathered clothes and. Dressed her up. So I also appreciated how Barbie had evolved over the years. And then, you know, Barbie could be anything she wanted. She could be an astronaut or a, uh, a doctor or a scientist. And so Mattel obviously got that they had a very powerful brand, but it had to be, uh, more realistic. And so Barbie then became an everyday doll, but with the superpower to be whatever she wanted to be career-wise. So when Mattel reached out and asked if I'd be part of their, their dream, series, I agreed because I thought that if little girls get a Barbie doll that inspires them to take on a career that they wouldn't otherwise have thought of, well then that's a good thing. And while you can't buy this Barbie, she's a one off, I got a real kick out of the fact that they wanted to dress her with my little suitcase, the red shoes, an Australian passport, and my, and my jewelry, and it was exactly the outfit I wore. So there is a picture of me with Barbie and in my, in my resignation suit and red shoes. It was so good. Yeah. So I thought my life was complete. Got my own Barbie.

GTN 40:59

Now, since leaving politics, you've founded your own consultancy. Uh, yes. And it seems, it seems clear to observers that you are enjoying the new found freedom in fashion.

Julie 41:09

Yes. Well, I'm fortunate enough to be a brand ambassador for David Jones and that gives me a great deal of, uh, freedom to experiment with different labels that David Jones have. And, uh, David Jones is a store that I've long loved ever since growing up in Adelaide, David Jones in Adelaide. And, uh, it was, the go-to store. And I, I love the, Elizabeth Street store here in Sydney, so that gives me access to some amazing labels, both Australian and international, and they support emerging artists. And we've got the David Jones Indigenous Runway for Australian Fashion Week Tonight we do. And I, I, I find that. Just wonderful. But it's, it's, I've also used it, um, for other purposes and I brought these two photographs along as well. So, uh, I'm an ambassador for Ovarian Cancer Research Foundation and I have worn quite flamboyant dresses that have been designed by, um, Jamie Tino out of Adelaide, who's uh, one of his relatives died of ovarian cancer, and so he creates these amazing dresses. I wear them in the most unlikely of situations, like on a lithium mine site or hanging off the PI at SLO Beach. Colo Beach. And these dresses get media coverage and then we auction them and raise money for cancer research. Mm. Ovarian cancer research. So you can use fashion in many, many ways. Mm. Um, for. For very positive and worthy causes. Yeah.

GTN 42:35

Yeah. And just in the day-to-day dressing, do you find a freedom now that you perhaps didn't have? I, I think so. I think I can, well, during Covid of course, we all lived in ath leisure wear, so I, I even spent, yes, I probably spent far too much time in a track suit, but I, yeah, I, I don't have to concern myself with How a particular outfit will be received by a foreign country or by the political class. So I can wear what I like. Uh, that was my first David Jones styling event last year. Mm-hmm. That was the Balman dress there. Fin Review did an article about the Minister for fashion, so I actually got, I got labeled that officially, and that's, that's all post politics. So, you know, I'd be, Obviously comfortable doing fashion spreads now, which I didn't do in politics. Yeah. I wouldn't get styled for events. I'd wear my own clothes and Right. Just, you know, um, be in fashion magazines. But since politics, I feel that I can, um, be styled. I don't have to wear my own clothes. I can promote other designers.

Julie 43:36

I remember when I met with Boris in, in London and I wore a short shirt. Short a short suit, which was a bit of a statement at the time. And this made the London media. I bet it did. I haven't seen that one, so I, yeah, I always thought that that was a bit of fun that, we wouldn't, we didn't, we didn't make the London press other than for wearing short suits and running with Boris. In a Penguin t-shirt, but that's another story I'll tell you about. And then that was my last appearance in Parliament, for budget 2000 and, um, 19 electric blue. Yeah. Are they secrets? A Rachel Gilbert secret dress. And I thought I could sit quietly on the back bench or, or I can turn up in a blue SE outfit because the the liberal party, cus there I was. Oh, flying the flag. But these, these are, back when I was foreign minister, I did a, retrospective for Collette Danigan at The Powerhouse. Yeah. Yeah. And there, I'm wearing one of my favorite Collette Dinnigan dresses that I had. Um, that's the other day. David Jones, Alexander McQueen, that's a Rachel Gilbert at the Palace. You know, so I've, worn Australian designers or Australian labels in,

GTN 44:40

oh, we had a nice time at Buckingham Palace too, didn't we? I remember that Julie and I got in trouble at Buckingham Palace for taking a selfie in the wrong room.

Julie 44:48

Yeah, there we are. There's, there's Ed Wiener and, oh, there we are. And us We are when again, the Commonwealth Fashion Exchange. The Commonwealth Fashion Exchange, sponsored by then princess Kate and um, Sophie, and then of course the sustainability side of fashion was given prominence through the Commonwealth Heads of government meetings, so started by Kate at Buckingham Palace and we were all there.

GTN 45:15

We were all there following Naomi Campbell around in her ruffle dress and,

Julie 45:19

and Anna Winter and, yes, rubbing shoulders quite

GTN 45:22

the night, wasn't it? It was. Well, Julia, what, just to finish up, what do you see your role as as a role model for women today?

Julie 45:30

Uh, I. I don't set out to be a role model, but I'm obviously, um, flattered and honored if people see me in that role. And if I can be a positive influence for women, I will certainly do what I can to empower women to be themselves, to be their best, authentic selves. And if I can do that through my fashion choices or my love of fashion, being authentic, not letting others define me, and that's a message I always have for women. Don't let others define who you are or what you can achieve or how you present yourself. Set your own standards and, and if you are comfortable with the standards you set for yourself, then work very hard to achieve them.

GTN 46:11

Beautiful. Julie, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends and on social media and subscribe, rate and review on your podcast platform of choice. You can also get in touch via Instagram at In Fashion underscore podcast. As mentioned at the start. This is the final episode in the first series, so I'll be taking a short break to gather up some more inspiring subjects to talk about all things in fashion. I've been so thrilled with the response, so thanks again for listening. Until next time.